@futurebird @sinituulia anecdotal, not data, but that's why I'm no longer active on Facebook. I joined many years ago to connect with my friends. My feed used to be mostly populated by posts by my friends, with some ads sprinkled in.

Now, the feed is mostly sponsored or advertising content with a few posts from my friends sprinkled in. The reason I joined is gone - connection with my community.

Facebook is a great example of what Cory Doctorow calls "enshittification".

@Jirikiha @sinituulia

I used to think there might be some middle ground where you could have "some" ads on social media and it still be a powerful and enjoyable part of the internet.

I now think that social media cannot function in a positive way if it has advertising at all. We just need to find other ways to make it work.

Ads are the reason people think social media is "toxic" ...

@Jirikiha @sinituulia

I used to think there might be some middle ground where you could have "some" ads on social media and it still be a powerful and enjoyable part of the internet.

I now think that social media cannot function in a positive way if it has advertising at all. We just need to find other ways to make it work.

Ads are the reason people think social media is "toxic" ...

@futurebird @Jirikiha @sinituulia
I might be an extremist here but I think advertising is inherently unethical. It exploits weaknesses in human psychology to manipulate our decision making patterns. It’s non-consensual brain hacking.

@Jirikiha @sinituulia

I used to think there might be some middle ground where you could have "some" ads on social media and it still be a powerful and enjoyable part of the internet.

I now think that social media cannot function in a positive way if it has advertising at all. We just need to find other ways to make it work.

Ads are the reason people think social media is "toxic" ...

@sabrina @futurebird @sinituulia There are two things called "advertising" but they look almost identical.

"Hey! I have a thing for sale that you might like and haven't heard of."

And, then there's what you're talking about, the manipulation using logical fallacies, emotional appeals, etc to change our points of view.

I've no problem with the first, but agree with you on the second.

@sabrina @futurebird @sinituulia Many years ago, I took a class in logic.
It covered symbolic logic: A causes B, A therefore B. It also covered fallacies like straw man attack, appeal to pity, etc. Basically, all the ways our media works to manipulate us. Taking that class resulted in an almost visceral response in me whenever I watched TV and could see the manipulation.

So, I stopped watching TV.

I think that was the start of a lot of changes in my life. No longer manipulated as much by media, I think I'm closer to who I actually am.

@futurebird @Jirikiha @sinituulia Ads in human social networks are effectively eusocial parasites, colonizing and exploiting the natural behaviors of their host species (us humans) for their selfish gains.

Compare to the behavior of Formica ssp, where queens from one species take over another species's hive, exploiting the workers's natural behaviors for their own gain.

Formica - Wikipedia

(en.wikipedia.org)

@zenkat @futurebird @sinituulia did you see that recent paper on ant colonies where the queen gives birth to two different species? She births the different species from hers for the workers, and mates with them to continue the sperm line to make more of them. Takes exploitation to a whole nother level!

@Jirikiha @sinituulia

I used to think there might be some middle ground where you could have "some" ads on social media and it still be a powerful and enjoyable part of the internet.

I now think that social media cannot function in a positive way if it has advertising at all. We just need to find other ways to make it work.

Ads are the reason people think social media is "toxic" ...

@futurebird @Jirikiha @sinituulia We were just talking in Swedish earlier today about how the most likely explanation for how increasingly far away from common sense and reality our political leadership is. And making the connection to the cesspits of propaganda (troll factory and not) and advertising social media they seem to spend time on.

Realizing that you are not immune to propaganda (incl advertising) and taking steps to minimize exposure should be a priority and taught in school.

@maswan @Jirikiha @sinituulia

I think it is natural to think "I am too smart to be manipulated by ads. I know how they work." And that part is fine but this next bit is not "... and that's why I don't need to worry about how much of my time is spent in ad-saturated spaces. I am smart enough that the ads do not impact me unlike the weak willed and uninformed."

That second bit isn't true for ANYONE.

Let me put a saliva sensor in your mouth and show you a food you like when you are hungry.

@maswan @Jirikiha @sinituulia

Or maybe you aren't sensitive to photos of food, but things like violence, gross images, soaring music.

It moves your heart.

If you care about media enough to enjoy it at all then you can (and have) been manipulated by ads.

And maybe even manipulated to rationalize that you think the manipulation is fine. It's what I wanted! I wanted to get excited about the iPhone 4. Or the Video Game. Or the Endless Crab Plate.

@sabrina @futurebird @sinituulia Many years ago, I took a class in logic.
It covered symbolic logic: A causes B, A therefore B. It also covered fallacies like straw man attack, appeal to pity, etc. Basically, all the ways our media works to manipulate us. Taking that class resulted in an almost visceral response in me whenever I watched TV and could see the manipulation.

So, I stopped watching TV.

I think that was the start of a lot of changes in my life. No longer manipulated as much by media, I think I'm closer to who I actually am.

@Jirikiha @sabrina @futurebird @sinituulia I also see very little media and I find avoiding it leaves me much more content and self-directed. I think it's mostly avoiding ads; I see Samuel Smith's distinction between good (honest) advertising and bad (manipulative) advertising but - seriously, when do you ever get honest advertising on media?