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Chebucto Regional Softball Club

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  3. Homo Sapiens are best described as:
A forum for discussing and organizing recreational softball and baseball games and leagues in the greater Halifax area.

Homo Sapiens are best described as:

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  • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

    Homo Sapiens are best described as:

    (Deliberately forcing the choice on this because it's NOT an easy or obvious question. I know it's tempting to waffle, but I want to see what people think if they are cornered on this one. )

    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
    myrmepropagandist
    wrote last edited by
    #2

    This question is just as annoying if you ask it about "ants" as if a category as wild and diverse as ants could be analyzed in this way.

    But, I see some parallels in the reasons why it's confounding.

    llewellyL 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

      Homo Sapiens are best described as:

      (Deliberately forcing the choice on this because it's NOT an easy or obvious question. I know it's tempting to waffle, but I want to see what people think if they are cornered on this one. )

      Jens FinkhäuserJ This user is from outside of this forum
      Jens FinkhäuserJ This user is from outside of this forum
      Jens Finkhäuser
      wrote last edited by
      #3

      @futurebird As a species, we mostly have advantages through tool making and use, so one could say we're generalists that are highly adapted to specialize.

      But being so adapted to tool making and use would mean we're a specialist, specifically one that can generalise well.

      I'm not even going to look for other ways to respond to this now.

      EamonnMRE 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

        Homo Sapiens are best described as:

        (Deliberately forcing the choice on this because it's NOT an easy or obvious question. I know it's tempting to waffle, but I want to see what people think if they are cornered on this one. )

        FeralRobotsF This user is from outside of this forum
        FeralRobotsF This user is from outside of this forum
        FeralRobots
        wrote last edited by
        #4

        @futurebird
        as a species, generalist. But peculiarly, it arises I think from rapidly changing environments, each in turn applying pressure to specialize: the specialization often needed to happen in time frames that evolution couldn't address, so the repetition of the meta-pattern over time drove us toward the ABILITY to specialize.

        As inidividuals we also face pressure to specialize, & forget our innate talent for general application.

        FeralRobotsF 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • FeralRobotsF FeralRobots

          @futurebird
          as a species, generalist. But peculiarly, it arises I think from rapidly changing environments, each in turn applying pressure to specialize: the specialization often needed to happen in time frames that evolution couldn't address, so the repetition of the meta-pattern over time drove us toward the ABILITY to specialize.

          As inidividuals we also face pressure to specialize, & forget our innate talent for general application.

          FeralRobotsF This user is from outside of this forum
          FeralRobotsF This user is from outside of this forum
          FeralRobots
          wrote last edited by
          #5

          @futurebird Put another way: The ability to specialize is a general ability.

          Jeremy KahnT 1 Reply Last reply
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          • FeralRobotsF FeralRobots

            @futurebird Put another way: The ability to specialize is a general ability.

            Jeremy KahnT This user is from outside of this forum
            Jeremy KahnT This user is from outside of this forum
            Jeremy Kahn
            wrote last edited by
            #6

            @FeralRobots @futurebird

            I voted for "specialists"

            Humans specialize in pretty much three things
            - pursuit-to-exhaustion predation
            - eating pretty much anything
            - pack-level problem-solving with story-telling

            All three of those specialist skills are responsible for the (generalist) widespread expansion of humans into almost every biome available

            myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • Jens FinkhäuserJ Jens Finkhäuser

              @futurebird As a species, we mostly have advantages through tool making and use, so one could say we're generalists that are highly adapted to specialize.

              But being so adapted to tool making and use would mean we're a specialist, specifically one that can generalise well.

              I'm not even going to look for other ways to respond to this now.

              EamonnMRE This user is from outside of this forum
              EamonnMRE This user is from outside of this forum
              EamonnMR
              wrote last edited by
              #7

              @jens @futurebird I'd argue that our special ability is our ability to communicate and coordinate as a group which prevents wheel reinvention. This dovetails with the oxygen comment: An individual human can't survive the challenger deep, but human society can get someone there. The people in the sub don't have to be the same people that know about turning screws or measuring crush depths or wiring switches or debugging sonar.

              Jens FinkhäuserJ 1 Reply Last reply
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              • EamonnMRE EamonnMR

                @jens @futurebird I'd argue that our special ability is our ability to communicate and coordinate as a group which prevents wheel reinvention. This dovetails with the oxygen comment: An individual human can't survive the challenger deep, but human society can get someone there. The people in the sub don't have to be the same people that know about turning screws or measuring crush depths or wiring switches or debugging sonar.

                Jens FinkhäuserJ This user is from outside of this forum
                Jens FinkhäuserJ This user is from outside of this forum
                Jens Finkhäuser
                wrote last edited by
                #8

                @EMR @futurebird IMHO other animals communicate and coordinate just fine.

                What's special about us is written language, which is tool use. That preserves and distributes knowledge better.

                But word of mouth? Hmm. I'm less convinced.

                EamonnMRE 1 Reply Last reply
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                • Jens FinkhäuserJ Jens Finkhäuser

                  @EMR @futurebird IMHO other animals communicate and coordinate just fine.

                  What's special about us is written language, which is tool use. That preserves and distributes knowledge better.

                  But word of mouth? Hmm. I'm less convinced.

                  EamonnMRE This user is from outside of this forum
                  EamonnMRE This user is from outside of this forum
                  EamonnMR
                  wrote last edited by
                  #9

                  @jens @futurebird human societies with no or little written language are still able to deal with any environment (and indeed, had most of the globe in-hand before recorded history began.) It's certainly nice but not essential.

                  myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                    This question is just as annoying if you ask it about "ants" as if a category as wild and diverse as ants could be analyzed in this way.

                    But, I see some parallels in the reasons why it's confounding.

                    llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                    llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                    llewelly
                    wrote last edited by
                    #10

                    @futurebird I answered "generalist" because humans as a species live in a wide variety of environments, consume a wide variety of foods, and have done so since the era of stone tools. As individuals, humans are probably more prone to specialization, because we live in large groups, in which different humans have different roles.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                      This question is just as annoying if you ask it about "ants" as if a category as wild and diverse as ants could be analyzed in this way.

                      But, I see some parallels in the reasons why it's confounding.

                      llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                      llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                      llewelly
                      wrote last edited by
                      #11

                      @futurebird I find myself conflicted about the comparison to ants. On one level, there's a serious problem in that there are many (22?) thousands of species of ants, some of which are probably generalists, but I guess maybe the specialists make up the majority of species. On another level, ants, somewhat like humans, are social organisms (but eusocial), and different ants in a colony take up specialist roles within it, etc.

                      myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • Jeremy KahnT Jeremy Kahn

                        @FeralRobots @futurebird

                        I voted for "specialists"

                        Humans specialize in pretty much three things
                        - pursuit-to-exhaustion predation
                        - eating pretty much anything
                        - pack-level problem-solving with story-telling

                        All three of those specialist skills are responsible for the (generalist) widespread expansion of humans into almost every biome available

                        myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                        myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                        myrmepropagandist
                        wrote last edited by
                        #12

                        @trochee @FeralRobots

                        It's bigger than "pack-level" humans can co-ordinate thousands of people and people don't always need to know each other to cooperate.

                        Ask me why I notice that in particular. 😉

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • EamonnMRE EamonnMR

                          @jens @futurebird human societies with no or little written language are still able to deal with any environment (and indeed, had most of the globe in-hand before recorded history began.) It's certainly nice but not essential.

                          myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                          myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                          myrmepropagandist
                          wrote last edited by
                          #13

                          @EMR @jens

                          Writing is a powerful tool, but so is domesticating crops and I find the two kind of hard to separate in impact.

                          But domestication is just another form of mass modular cooperation.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • llewellyL llewelly

                            @futurebird I find myself conflicted about the comparison to ants. On one level, there's a serious problem in that there are many (22?) thousands of species of ants, some of which are probably generalists, but I guess maybe the specialists make up the majority of species. On another level, ants, somewhat like humans, are social organisms (but eusocial), and different ants in a colony take up specialist roles within it, etc.

                            myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                            myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                            myrmepropagandist
                            wrote last edited by
                            #14

                            @llewelly

                            What's similar is the ability to coordinate thousands of individuals. But many things are very very different.

                            But, I think that "mass coordination" is a big point of success either way.

                            llewellyL 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                              @llewelly

                              What's similar is the ability to coordinate thousands of individuals. But many things are very very different.

                              But, I think that "mass coordination" is a big point of success either way.

                              llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                              llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                              llewelly
                              wrote last edited by
                              #15

                              @futurebird oh, great point. But in humans, mass coordination seems to be a relatively recent thing; from my (amatuer) understanding of anthropology, for most of human history, probably all humans lived in smaller groups, maybe a few dozen to a few hundred at most. Groups of thousands practically didn't exist until 6000 years ago. Even then, they remained a minority of humans until about 1000 years ago. Ants, on the other hand, depending on linage, have had mass coordination much longer.

                              myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • llewellyL llewelly

                                @futurebird oh, great point. But in humans, mass coordination seems to be a relatively recent thing; from my (amatuer) understanding of anthropology, for most of human history, probably all humans lived in smaller groups, maybe a few dozen to a few hundred at most. Groups of thousands practically didn't exist until 6000 years ago. Even then, they remained a minority of humans until about 1000 years ago. Ants, on the other hand, depending on linage, have had mass coordination much longer.

                                myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                                myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                                myrmepropagandist
                                wrote last edited by
                                #16

                                @llewelly

                                Well the way that I look at it humans were just another languishing primate with fewer than a million individuals until the mass cooperation got going.

                                It's what I see as the source of all the madness and wonder.

                                llewellyL 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist shared this topic
                                • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                                  @llewelly

                                  Well the way that I look at it humans were just another languishing primate with fewer than a million individuals until the mass cooperation got going.

                                  It's what I see as the source of all the madness and wonder.

                                  llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                                  llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                                  llewelly
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #17

                                  @futurebird true. If aliens had investigated earth prior to about 6000 years ago, and been asked which mammals were the best mass coordinators, they surely would not have picked humans. Even 2000 years ago, maybe not. (Had to limit it to mammals, because there are a lot of invertebrates that occur in large numbers, but how coordinated? Few compare with ants. )

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                                    Homo Sapiens are best described as:

                                    (Deliberately forcing the choice on this because it's NOT an easy or obvious question. I know it's tempting to waffle, but I want to see what people think if they are cornered on this one. )

                                    James GleickG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    James GleickG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    James Gleick
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #18

                                    @futurebird I'm not sure I even see the argument for specialists. Please explain, if you feel like it.

                                    myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • James GleickG James Gleick

                                      @futurebird I'm not sure I even see the argument for specialists. Please explain, if you feel like it.

                                      myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                                      myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                                      myrmepropagandist
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #19

                                      @gleick

                                      Without a network of technology, people and other kinds of support individual people are kind of ineffective and could die easily.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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