A forum for discussing and organizing recreational softball and baseball games and leagues in the greater Halifax area.
Sounds like a bitch problem
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Forcing a whole table full of people to deliberately be ignorant and *pretend* to "discover" things that they already know isn't fun, it's tedious. Even most "roleplay over gaming" types are still there to roleplay being a heroic skilled figure, not a dribbling moron that knows nothing about their own world. Pretending to be a moron can be fun for some players, if they're freely choosing to do it themselves. Being forced into it, especially if it happens multiple times, isn't fun for most people. The guy on the right in that meme does not look like someone who's having fun, just someone who's briefly tolerating some bullshit so he can get on with the rest of the game. This is the DM being thin-skinned about the fact that they wanted the players to have a challenge, and when it turned out not to be, wanting them to pretend like it was anyway so that they can tell themselves it was a good game. > Question. Do you know how to escape a car that’s upside down and submerged in water? Because if you don’t, there are a lot of things that are going to get you killed due to not being aware of what the issue is. > it’s a danger that not everyone on the earth is familiar with despite the fact that it is a hyper common vehicle This is a bad example. The point of the fire thing is that all experienced RPG players or readers of common fantasy literature know "trolls -> fire". You've picked a scenario that would also be obscure outside of a hypothetical game outside of the real world.I really don't know what is so hard to understand about this. You are playing a role-playing game. Part of the role-playing game is that you are playing a role due to, you know, it being role-playing game. One of those roles is that you are an inexperienced adventurer. The expectation is that you as an inexperienced adventurer would not know the detail of a monster that an experienced adventurer would know. No one is saying you cannot use fire. Everyone is saying you cannot prepare only fire spells when going to this area because that would be you having information to knowledge that your character does not have. But do you want to know what every single DM would reward? You go into a library to look up trolls. If you know that they're supposed to be trolls in a specific area because it's called troll canyon, do some research. I guarantee you that the DM will actually reward you. What you want is a reward given for no effort. You want to say that your character has the information because you as a player have the information, but again, this is a role-playing game and you are playing a role that doesn't have the information that your player has. The limitations on you being an inexperienced character and not having access to that information is something that you should probably ask the DM at the start, but it also does mean that you're going to be limiting pretty severely the role-playing aspect of the role-playing game. If you would like to have your cake and eat it too, then I highly recommend trying to do something in the game that would actually demonstrate that your character is trying to learn something about the various creatures, so that way you could not only get vulnerabilities from that, but also be rewarded in general and look like a good player. Just a general hint and tip from a DM who is tired of this shit.
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If your playing a dumb character, then rolling through troll canyon without doing research first is exactly what that character would do... Respect for the RPing...EXACTLY. People in this thread keep saying that they should be expected to keep the information that they as a player have because it's obvious No one is really giving an argument other than the fact that it hurts my phone No one else who is making that argument is thinking about how the fact that that hurts other players fun because it makes it all about them. You are hitting the nail on the head. You are able to have your cake and eat it too if you combine the roleplay with learning the information. You know you're going to a place called Troll Canyon? Go do the research. Suddenly you now do know that they are weak to fire. No one can argue that fact, and everyone can prepare. Moreover, you're also going to be in an area where you could probably get some extra fire stuff to help take care of them. It's also the type of cleverness that a DM will actually reward instead of just going. Oh yeah, of course you would know the thing for no reason.
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because I love being told "your character knows nothing about subject that you personally are intimately familiar with". Makes for fun game play, I promise.It genuinely does. You might know a lot about the current state of speed running an obscure N64 game that was only released for a week in a single store in Japan, but your dnd character certainly does not
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in the remaster trolls have the humanoid trait, so they use society. GM can rule to change that, though.
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EXACTLY. People in this thread keep saying that they should be expected to keep the information that they as a player have because it's obvious No one is really giving an argument other than the fact that it hurts my phone No one else who is making that argument is thinking about how the fact that that hurts other players fun because it makes it all about them. You are hitting the nail on the head. You are able to have your cake and eat it too if you combine the roleplay with learning the information. You know you're going to a place called Troll Canyon? Go do the research. Suddenly you now do know that they are weak to fire. No one can argue that fact, and everyone can prepare. Moreover, you're also going to be in an area where you could probably get some extra fire stuff to help take care of them. It's also the type of cleverness that a DM will actually reward instead of just going. Oh yeah, of course you would know the thing for no reason.That absolutely makes sense. I don't do tabletop, but when I start a new game and am playing it the first time, I don't go around reading guides. This gives me the fun that people say they don't get from games nowadays. e.g. Playing DOS2:DE, it was from reading something in-game that I realised that Trolls were regenerative and weak to fire. Then I proceeded to splotch poison on them and then fire up the poison puddle. And of course, I hadn't played a game with trolls before and didn't know about their special characteristics. But even if I had played such a thing, I would go into another game with a fresh mind, because just having the same name doesn't make the the same entity in 2 different worlds.
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I really don't know what is so hard to understand about this. You are playing a role-playing game. Part of the role-playing game is that you are playing a role due to, you know, it being role-playing game. One of those roles is that you are an inexperienced adventurer. The expectation is that you as an inexperienced adventurer would not know the detail of a monster that an experienced adventurer would know. No one is saying you cannot use fire. Everyone is saying you cannot prepare only fire spells when going to this area because that would be you having information to knowledge that your character does not have. But do you want to know what every single DM would reward? You go into a library to look up trolls. If you know that they're supposed to be trolls in a specific area because it's called troll canyon, do some research. I guarantee you that the DM will actually reward you. What you want is a reward given for no effort. You want to say that your character has the information because you as a player have the information, but again, this is a role-playing game and you are playing a role that doesn't have the information that your player has. The limitations on you being an inexperienced character and not having access to that information is something that you should probably ask the DM at the start, but it also does mean that you're going to be limiting pretty severely the role-playing aspect of the role-playing game. If you would like to have your cake and eat it too, then I highly recommend trying to do something in the game that would actually demonstrate that your character is trying to learn something about the various creatures, so that way you could not only get vulnerabilities from that, but also be rewarded in general and look like a good player. Just a general hint and tip from a DM who is tired of this shit.> Just a general hint and tip from a DM who is tired of this shit. Try being a better DM that doesn’t unnecessarily put their players into unsatisfying situations where they have to play against themselves. Make the thing their characters learn actually be something the player has to learn. It’s not difficult.
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> Just a general hint and tip from a DM who is tired of this shit. Try being a better DM that doesn’t unnecessarily put their players into unsatisfying situations where they have to play against themselves. Make the thing their characters learn actually be something the player has to learn. It’s not difficult.> don't jump through your hoops > *looks inside* > *The hoops are basic gameplay mechanics*
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> Just a general hint and tip from a DM who is tired of this shit. Try being a better DM that doesn’t unnecessarily put their players into unsatisfying situations where they have to play against themselves. Make the thing their characters learn actually be something the player has to learn. It’s not difficult.
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In my experience, knowledge checks are for "My character has a high int stat and I can't be bothered to think about this puzzle, solve it for me".Ah. We tend to give players a DC to beat (usually 10+HD), with success giving you the description blurb in the MM and the accurate answer to one question (typically: vulnerability, best/worst save, special ability). Extra questions for every 5 above the DC. So a Wizard or Bard or equivalent typically knows that trolls are weak against fire and illithids eat your brains. A low skill/int character will struggle to recall anything useful.
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Those are both great examples of why a character might try to throw anti-troll paste (tar) at trolls. ::: spoiler spoiler A red cape doesn't mean anything different than a black cape to a bull, and sucking venom from a snakebite isn't a thing outside of movies. It won't hurt, but it won't do much good either. One myth that *will* cause damage is putting ice on a pit viper bite though, so remember to avoid doing that. :::Huh, TIL on the snakebite thing. I was pulling that from an old boy scout manual, just remember something about cutting the wound site first. The red of the cape setting off a bull is a myth, sure; but you still don't want to wave *any* capes around in front of a pissed off bull! I'll stand by how I phrased that claim
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Funny that you use those examples, since they're both wrong. If anything, we should be running at the trolls with stinky socks because someone wanted to sound smart at a bar once and made up a factoid that spread like wildfire among the common folk.
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if your headed to a place called troll canyon you should probably do some research on what trolls are weak to beforehand"Don't worry, it's just a name!" Gets attacked by trolls. "I thought it was just a name!"
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I feel like trolls are common enough that even a farmer would know they don't like fire or acid.Trolls are only common if they're made common, though. Like, they're common in the Forgotten Realms, or Golarion, or whatever, but commonality is out the window in a homebrew setting.
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I never said it wasn't derogatory, and yes actually, acknowledging that different ways to play the game are fine does absolutely make it okay. "Tell me ahead of time and I won't play at your table" "You won't catch me doing that" ya bro they want to play the game the way they have fun and not force themselves to play it a way they don't enjoy for the benefit of others. And instead of letting that be, you have to whine and okay the victim.
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So you read that entire message and you only boiled it all down to that one single response despite going on forever about your own problems? Zero allowance of criticism against you, but all of the criticism against everything else? Sounds familiar. Yeah, the last paragraph I wrote in that other message? Yeah, that seems to be way more relevant to this now than I thought it was initially. Have a good day.ok, I was being unfair with my single line response. I'll go back, re read it, and actually give a proper response. --- I've come to the conclusion that you and I look for very different things in a tabletop rpg. Something of a spectrum, if you will, on one end is maximally role-play and on the other end is maximally game. Everyone's preference is going to be at some point between those two extremes. You lean more towards the roleplay, I lean more towards game. We would not have a good time if we were at the same table, and despite my enjoyment of making fun of playstyles other than my preferred, your table has every right to exist and do things how you want to and my opinion doesn't matter to that.
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Are you the original commenter's PR agent or something? The original comment is literally whining and playing the victim...
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No, the conversation did not start out with you being effectively called a bitch. A meme was posted that you decided to take incredibly seriously and incredibly personally. But you are 100% being an ass.I think I may have responded to the wrong comment with that one, as someone was misrepresenting something I said and my intent was to point out how misrepresenting a statement is bad by misrepresenting another statement. I'm honestly having a hard time finding the comment that I intended to respond to.
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I really don't know what is so hard to understand about this. You are playing a role-playing game. Part of the role-playing game is that you are playing a role due to, you know, it being role-playing game. One of those roles is that you are an inexperienced adventurer. The expectation is that you as an inexperienced adventurer would not know the detail of a monster that an experienced adventurer would know. No one is saying you cannot use fire. Everyone is saying you cannot prepare only fire spells when going to this area because that would be you having information to knowledge that your character does not have. But do you want to know what every single DM would reward? You go into a library to look up trolls. If you know that they're supposed to be trolls in a specific area because it's called troll canyon, do some research. I guarantee you that the DM will actually reward you. What you want is a reward given for no effort. You want to say that your character has the information because you as a player have the information, but again, this is a role-playing game and you are playing a role that doesn't have the information that your player has. The limitations on you being an inexperienced character and not having access to that information is something that you should probably ask the DM at the start, but it also does mean that you're going to be limiting pretty severely the role-playing aspect of the role-playing game. If you would like to have your cake and eat it too, then I highly recommend trying to do something in the game that would actually demonstrate that your character is trying to learn something about the various creatures, so that way you could not only get vulnerabilities from that, but also be rewarded in general and look like a good player. Just a general hint and tip from a DM who is tired of this shit.If you don't want the players to know the cliché weakness so badly, why don't you make up another monster instead of troll? Just sidestep the whole problem. It's not Troll Canyon. It's Grall Canyon. What the fuck are Gralls? No idea but they sound nasty. Because clearly, some players are going to balk at "you want us to forget this well known fantasy cliché?". And it doesn't matter if you think their playstyle is stupid. It's a game. People are trying to have fun.
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In my experience, knowledge checks are for "My character has a high int stat and I can't be bothered to think about this puzzle, solve it for me".Personally, I generally dislike puzzles in RPGs. My character has 20 intelligence. In real life I'm rocking _at best_ 12. I am not going to make the intuitive leaps to solve this cipher like my character would. You're not asking the fighter to demonstrate a shield bash or the rogue to pick a lock. Riddles and puzzles aren't nearly as interesting as explained choices, anyway. Do you take the Sword of Rivers from the tomb, fighting the guardian and potentially causing drought and famine in the region? You've been told it's the only thing that can stop the Fire Elemental Incursion back home. Much more interesting than trying to figure out what a poem means or a sliding block puzzle, to me.
