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Chebucto Regional Softball Club

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  3. In reading a fascinating and important discussion of the lack of a termination clause in the new Mastodon.social Terms of Service:
A forum for discussing and organizing recreational softball and baseball games and leagues in the greater Halifax area.

In reading a fascinating and important discussion of the lack of a termination clause in the new Mastodon.social Terms of Service:

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  • Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
    Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
    Cory Doctorow
    wrote last edited by
    #1

    In reading a fascinating and important discussion of the lack of a termination clause in the new Mastodon.social Terms of Service:

    Link Preview Image
    New Terms of Service IP clause cannot be terminated or revoked, not even by deleting content · Issue #35086 · mastodon/mastodon

    Summary Since it first opened, mastodon.social has operated without any sort of explicit IP grant from the users to the service, which is unusual for a social networking service. Today Mastodon announced effective July 1 there will be a ...

    favicon

    GitHub (github.com)

    I was GOBSMACKED to discover the new ToS has a "binding arbitration waiver," which takes away your right to sue, no matter how badly the service abuses you.

    These are profoundly unethical, terrible clauses. They should never, ever appear in "adhesion contracts" (that is, contracts that you merely click through, rather than negotiating.)

    Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

      In reading a fascinating and important discussion of the lack of a termination clause in the new Mastodon.social Terms of Service:

      Link Preview Image
      New Terms of Service IP clause cannot be terminated or revoked, not even by deleting content · Issue #35086 · mastodon/mastodon

      Summary Since it first opened, mastodon.social has operated without any sort of explicit IP grant from the users to the service, which is unusual for a social networking service. Today Mastodon announced effective July 1 there will be a ...

      favicon

      GitHub (github.com)

      I was GOBSMACKED to discover the new ToS has a "binding arbitration waiver," which takes away your right to sue, no matter how badly the service abuses you.

      These are profoundly unethical, terrible clauses. They should never, ever appear in "adhesion contracts" (that is, contracts that you merely click through, rather than negotiating.)

      Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
      Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
      Cory Doctorow
      wrote last edited by
      #2

      No one, and I do mean NO ONE, should ever, ever, EVER agree to a binding arbitration waiver.

      These are the most grotesquely unfair contractual terms in routine use today. The potential for abuse is literally unlimited.

      Remember when a Disney World visitor died of an allergic reaction after being assured that her food order was allergen-free? Disney argued that her family couldn't sue because her husband had clicked through an arbitration waiver when signing up for a free trial of Disney Plus.

      Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

        No one, and I do mean NO ONE, should ever, ever, EVER agree to a binding arbitration waiver.

        These are the most grotesquely unfair contractual terms in routine use today. The potential for abuse is literally unlimited.

        Remember when a Disney World visitor died of an allergic reaction after being assured that her food order was allergen-free? Disney argued that her family couldn't sue because her husband had clicked through an arbitration waiver when signing up for a free trial of Disney Plus.

        Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
        Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
        Cory Doctorow
        wrote last edited by
        #3

        I am very shocked to see this in the ToS for the flagship Mastodon instance, promulgated by the Mastodon nonprofit.

        To be clear, I think this is *much* worse than, say, requiring users of mastodon.social to agree to have their posts used to train LLMs. The harms of having your work fed to an AI are mostly hypothetical and relate to moral qualms.

        By contrast, a binding arbitration waiver would literally allow the management of mastodon.social to cause your DEATH and face no consequences.

        Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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        • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

          I am very shocked to see this in the ToS for the flagship Mastodon instance, promulgated by the Mastodon nonprofit.

          To be clear, I think this is *much* worse than, say, requiring users of mastodon.social to agree to have their posts used to train LLMs. The harms of having your work fed to an AI are mostly hypothetical and relate to moral qualms.

          By contrast, a binding arbitration waiver would literally allow the management of mastodon.social to cause your DEATH and face no consequences.

          Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
          Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
          Cory Doctorow
          wrote last edited by
          #4

          I am trying not to be dramatic here, but this is a deal-breaker for me - literally. I changed dentists because I wouldn't sign binding arbitration. I changed solar installers because I wouldn't sign binding arbitration.

          I could never, in good conscience, recommend that someone use a service that required binding arbitration as a condition of use - which means that as of July 1, I would no longer be able to recommend that people get an account on mastodon.social.

          Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

            I am trying not to be dramatic here, but this is a deal-breaker for me - literally. I changed dentists because I wouldn't sign binding arbitration. I changed solar installers because I wouldn't sign binding arbitration.

            I could never, in good conscience, recommend that someone use a service that required binding arbitration as a condition of use - which means that as of July 1, I would no longer be able to recommend that people get an account on mastodon.social.

            Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
            Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
            Cory Doctorow
            wrote last edited by
            #5

            And since mastodon.social is the flagship instance, which sets the moral example - and the workaday template - for most instances in the Fediverse, this catastrophically bad clause is likely to proliferate far and wide throughout the Fediverse, rendering most of this new, better internet unfit for use.

            Please, @Gargron, reconsider this. It is a very bad look - and worse still, it's a very, very bad example.

            Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

              And since mastodon.social is the flagship instance, which sets the moral example - and the workaday template - for most instances in the Fediverse, this catastrophically bad clause is likely to proliferate far and wide throughout the Fediverse, rendering most of this new, better internet unfit for use.

              Please, @Gargron, reconsider this. It is a very bad look - and worse still, it's a very, very bad example.

              Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
              Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
              Cory Doctorow
              wrote last edited by
              #6

              @Gargron Also, I saw your note on the Github issue about using pro-bono counsel. If you'd like me to ask EFF's lawyers about helping Mastodon come up with fair and user-rights-preserving ToS, please email me at cory@eff.org

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