When Atta queens found their nest, they carry a sample of the symbiotic fungi in their mouth.
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When Atta queens found their nest, they carry a sample of the symbiotic fungi in their mouth. They then lay a few unfertilized eggs and inoculate them with the fungi to get the culture going.
The fungi that Atta grow *can consume their eggs*
The queens also lay some fertilized eggs, the first workers and these are kept clean and *not* consumed by the fungi.
I'm surprised by this because the fugi is where the eggs of these ants are generally kept. How do they keep it from consuming them?
@futurebird They cracked the chemical code of “no eat this”
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@futurebird They cracked the chemical code of “no eat this”
They are doing gardening on a level that is so far beyond any human idea of farming it's crazy.
They manage PH levels, humidity, bacteria (beneficial and not), and groom individual strands of mycelium because they are ants and tiny enough to do that.
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I suspect it's as simple as breaking the eggs, or not keeping them clean of the mycelium? In mature colonies if an egg fails it become more fertilizer easily enough.
It'd be nice to know the details of how this works... is anyone familiar?
@futurebird maybe the fungus just behaves itself as part of the symbiotic relationship
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F myrmepropagandist shared this topic
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@futurebird maybe the fungus just behaves itself as part of the symbiotic relationship
Maybe? The thing is fungal infections are a risk for arthropods in a way that they just aren't for creatures like mammals. This is because we can regulate our body temperature and a lot of that is about limiting what can and cannot "grow" in the human body.
This is also why the one part of the human body that does get attacked by fungi are feet and toenails. They aren't warm enough basically.
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I suspect it's as simple as breaking the eggs, or not keeping them clean of the mycelium? In mature colonies if an egg fails it become more fertilizer easily enough.
It'd be nice to know the details of how this works... is anyone familiar?
@futurebird
Any idea what percent of newly founded colonies need to succeed (that is, produce additional queens) in order to maintain overall species population? -
Maybe? The thing is fungal infections are a risk for arthropods in a way that they just aren't for creatures like mammals. This is because we can regulate our body temperature and a lot of that is about limiting what can and cannot "grow" in the human body.
This is also why the one part of the human body that does get attacked by fungi are feet and toenails. They aren't warm enough basically.
I wonder if comparative studies have been done to compare effectiveness of lab rat body temperature regulation for disease prevention, with ant colony temperature regulation for disease prevention?
I'd be surprised if the lab rat body temperature regulation wasn't more effective, particularly for fungal disease. But surely the effectiveness of ant colony temperature regulation wouldn't be zero, and it might be closer than expected to what lab rats achieve.
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@futurebird
Any idea what percent of newly founded colonies need to succeed (that is, produce additional queens) in order to maintain overall species population?@llewelly @futurebird
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question, but isn't this just simple replacement: one new successful colony per old colony? -
@llewelly @futurebird
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question, but isn't this just simple replacement: one new successful colony per old colony?@australopithecus @futurebird imagine an ant species in which an average colony sends out 10 queens. Now imagine half die before founding a colony (let's blame bird predation). Since 5 colonies got founded, only 20% (1 of 5) need survive to produce additional queens, on average. These are all totally invented numbers, I'm asking what real world numbers might be.
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@australopithecus @futurebird imagine an ant species in which an average colony sends out 10 queens. Now imagine half die before founding a colony (let's blame bird predation). Since 5 colonies got founded, only 20% (1 of 5) need survive to produce additional queens, on average. These are all totally invented numbers, I'm asking what real world numbers might be.
@llewelly @futurebird
Ah, I see, you're basically looking for a} actual numbers of new queens sent out, and b) percent of those that survive long enough to start a new colony. -
@futurebird
Any idea what percent of newly founded colonies need to succeed (that is, produce additional queens) in order to maintain overall species population?For Atta it’s less than 1/10,000 the success rate is horrible. The queens are like seeds and many do not land on fertile ground. Or there is another ant colony there already. or the birds get them. The strategy is having a queen in every possible location ready to go— so that all locations where an ant colony might be successful are populated.
Queens try to get underground and hidden as soon as they are mated. They don’t dither and search for the perfect location.
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@llewelly @futurebird
Ah, I see, you're basically looking for a} actual numbers of new queens sent out, and b) percent of those that survive long enough to start a new colony.@australopithecus @llewelly
The book I’m reading says this:
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For Atta it’s less than 1/10,000 the success rate is horrible. The queens are like seeds and many do not land on fertile ground. Or there is another ant colony there already. or the birds get them. The strategy is having a queen in every possible location ready to go— so that all locations where an ant colony might be successful are populated.
Queens try to get underground and hidden as soon as they are mated. They don’t dither and search for the perfect location.
@futurebird Thank you.
in that case, I guess it may be that if some colonies are lost becaue the symbiotic fungus gets out of control and eats all the eggs, that might be tolerated in an evolutionary sense, because the other dangers are so much greater.
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@australopithecus @llewelly
The book I’m reading says this:That’s one of Alex’s photos he has a bunch in this book which is very good:
“The Leafcutter Ants” by Hölldobler and Wilson 2011
Absolutely essential for any ant library.
