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Skill checks
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> Good design accounts for the reality how people actually use a thing. Disagree. People misuse stuff *constantly*. I'm also falling back on my point that if someone is upset that their natural 20 doesn't mean that they get an auto success on a skill then that's more of a skill issue on them for just not reading the rules. TTRPGs are not simple nor are they going to hold your hand and give you everything you want. Just because a player expects something doesn't mean they should get it nor that their expectation is based in reality. It's a false understanding of the rules. The design is good. The players reading comprehension isn't. If some DMs want to lean into that, by all means, but the game isn't badly designed just because some people make a false assumption that isn't backed up anywhere.
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Acrobatics does. Add an extra flip.
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> Good design accounts for the reality how people actually use a thing. Disagree. People misuse stuff *constantly*. I'm also falling back on my point that if someone is upset that their natural 20 doesn't mean that they get an auto success on a skill then that's more of a skill issue on them for just not reading the rules. TTRPGs are not simple nor are they going to hold your hand and give you everything you want. Just because a player expects something doesn't mean they should get it nor that their expectation is based in reality. It's a false understanding of the rules. The design is good. The players reading comprehension isn't. If some DMs want to lean into that, by all means, but the game isn't badly designed just because some people make a false assumption that isn't backed up anywhere.>Disagree. People misuse stuff constantly. Woah wait now. Sure people misuse things but designing with that in mind always produces a better thing than ignoring reality. A gun with a safety is a objectively a better design than a gun with no safety, even if the both have a manual that says not to play with the trigger and keep away from kids. >on them for just not reading the rules The game trains you to expect a dopamine reward when you roll a 20. A game that consistently meets the expectations it creates would be a better game.
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> The game trains you to expect a dopamine reward when you roll a 20. Okay this is just getting ridiculous and I'm checking out of this conversation entirely. You're now just going with stuff that is either completely unprovable or totally anecdotal. while I'm saying "Your assumptions do not reflect reality when the rules say otherwise." We're not going to see eye to eye on this at all.
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I've seen this easily solved by assuming the 20 succeedes but the DM decides how exactly. "Okay. The dragon loves you know. They realize you have their old lover's eyes. You remember this too. Old tales in your family that you thought were a joke. You are apparently related. And they do love you now." If you can't trust your players to act like adults and show some basic maturity. That's a different issue.This is also a great way to handle it; malicious compliance/monkey paw. Makes for some humorous moments. And yeah, if a player is constantly having to be told no, a talk may need to be had, and if it can't be resolved, they probably need to go. It's also a reason why Session 0's are so important; talking out what's expected of the campaign both on the part of the players and what the GM has in mind.
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Because I don't have everyone's modifier for every skill, ability, saving throw, and attack memorized off the top of my head, nor do I have magical foresight into whether or not they will choose to use abilities that would add more additional points on top of those modifiers.You should at least have a general idea of your PC's skillsets. As in, don't let the country bumpkin make Arcana checks about monsters he's never seen, or let the stick figure try to punch down a wall. If you look at a character in a situation and think, "there's no way that could succeed," then they shouldn't be making a check.
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I 90% agree. I think most of the opposition to this comes from people exhausted with habitual boundary-pushers who think that a nat 20 means they can get away with defying the laws of reality. Like, no, a nat20 persuasion does not convince the merchant to give you half his stock and all the money in the register... He would go broke and he's got a family to support, along with his own survival that your nat20 does not also convince him to stop caring about. But at the end of the day, a lot of GMs who are sick of that need to be sent the dictionary page for the word "no." The occasional use of it really does improve the quality of the game, and I'm sure plenty of players will appreciate not letting aforementioned boundry pushers continue to waste time on impossible pursuits that do nothing to move the game forward."No" needs to be said before the roll, IMO. Then If the player insists on doing something impossible anyway, just role-play the failure. With that said, actions that are in a narrow sense impossible can still have positive outcomes and if there's the potential for that then I'd say roll for it. The proverbial dragon seduction attempt can still flatter a dragon with a big ego enough to benefit the PC even if it doesn't get the PC laid.
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Acrobatics does. Add an extra flip.
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In addition to what the others have said, I think degrees of failure are often a fun thing to introduce whether they are in the rules or not (I'll assume D&D 5E). It might be that a 20 with your +3 athletics isn't enough to completely leap over that huge gap, but you manage to grab a handhold a few metres below the edge. The cleric's roll of 3 with a -1 athletics, on the other hand, sees him plummeting to the bottom and taking a heap of fall damage
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They do at my table. Because it's more fun, god damn it!
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I have zero regrets about my sick-ass backflip.
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Because I don't have everyone's modifier for every skill, ability, saving throw, and attack memorized off the top of my head, nor do I have magical foresight into whether or not they will choose to use abilities that would add more additional points on top of those modifiers.Why the hell not? You're the DM. Why do you not have copies of your players character sheets?
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> but at the end of the day if a 20 is a crit success on skill checks it is a jackpot mechanic But it isn't a crit success on skill checks. That's what I'm losing my mind over lmao y'all are making it up! ***That's not written in the game.*** A Natural 20 is only a critical hit in combat or a critical success in a death save. No where else.
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They do at my table. Because it's more fun, god damn it!2 things: 1: I've gotten disco Elysium, and Ive only played a few minutes, but I don't remember it having rolls like that? How does one know what one is rolling? I played like 20 minutes of it 3 months ago, so maybe I'm misremembering. 2: that's how my brother DMs. I once critfailed a lock picking so badly that my character broke his finger. My brother laughed his ass off
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2 things: 1: I've gotten disco Elysium, and Ive only played a few minutes, but I don't remember it having rolls like that? How does one know what one is rolling? I played like 20 minutes of it 3 months ago, so maybe I'm misremembering. 2: that's how my brother DMs. I once critfailed a lock picking so badly that my character broke his finger. My brother laughed his ass offA lot of dialogue points and other actions will bring up a thing that rolls 2 D6s. Snake eyes is a critical failure, double sixes is critical success. The earliest point in the game where you can make one of these rolls is in your hotel room. Either by attempting to get your tie out of the ceiling fan, or by using the mirror and trying to stop making "The Expression." Many of them can be re-rolled later once you get more skill points. Others are one and done unless you reload or start a new game.
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Why the hell not? You're the DM. Why do you not have copies of your players character sheets?I regularly play in groups with eight player characters, Kolkani. Do you want me to check all eight of their sheets and all their abilities that could possibly modify their scores or just ask them to make a Blah (Foo) check check and see what the result is? It's gonna be way faster for everyone to just ask them to roll.
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This is also a great way to handle it; malicious compliance/monkey paw. Makes for some humorous moments. And yeah, if a player is constantly having to be told no, a talk may need to be had, and if it can't be resolved, they probably need to go. It's also a reason why Session 0's are so important; talking out what's expected of the campaign both on the part of the players and what the GM has in mind.
